This is some interesting news regarding the current Anglican/Baptist dialogue. It is not a good article...well, it does not get into the nitty gritty of the conversation. I think I will be in touch with these people again. I occasionally email the Baptist representatives from the WCC. I hope I don't annoy them, but they are providing much of the theological underpinnings of our work at Reconciler.
It is good news.
Thanks to Jane Ellen for the information.
The Anglican Communion and the Baptist World Alliance will publish an account of five years of innovative dialogue later this month.
Conversations Around the World offers its readers the chance to share in a "deeply serious, yet joyous, enterprise". The book is an account of conversations between Anglicans and Baptists across the world, conversations that covered the entire spectrum of Christian faith, comparing and contrasting how the two traditions approach their Christian discipleship. It describes the many ways in which the two denominations share a common mission, a common witness to Christ.
Conversations Around the World is the fruit of five years of unique and hopeful ecumenical process. In order to ensure the inclusion of Christian voices from every continent, dialogue participants were appointed from within each of the six regions where the meetings were held. Only a small 'Continuation Committee' -- under the chairmanship of Paul Fiddes (Baptist, Lecturer in Divinity, University of Oxford) and Bruce Matthews (Anglican, Professor of Comparative Religion, Wolfville University, Nova Scotia) --attended all of the meetings. In this way, a variety of cultural contexts were taken into account. Each regional group was aware of the discussions of previous groups,but was free to contribute its own concerns and insights regarding the issues under consideration. At the conclusion of the series of discussions, all participants received a draft final report for comment, and for confirmation that the many regional voices had been properly considered.
This new approach to ecumenical dialogue was enriching and inspiring. While differences remain, the two traditions are "surprisingly close" on many fundamental theological issues and have a great potential for practical collaboration. Remarkably, within the context of these discussions, even divergences between the traditions were not seen as hopeless barriers of division, but as encouraging signs of Christian devotion and faithfulness.
"They discovered that Anglicans and Baptists have a great deal in common, and much to celebrate", said Canon Gregory Cameron, Director of Ecumenical Affairs at the Anglican Communion Office in London, UK. "In both traditions we proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord, and this fact calls us into closer relationship. The work represented by this book gives an example of how Christians of different denominations can seek to understand each other and work more closely together."
The book will be launched at a Reception on Friday, 24th June, during the meeting of the Anglican Consultative Council in Nottingham, the United Kingdom. Media and representatives of the two traditions are asked to contact Robert Bergner at obert.bergner@anglicancommunion.org if they would like to be present.
Posted by tripp at June 20, 2005 09:55 AMCool. Sounds like a good project, well undertaken.
What is "the nitty gritty of the conversation"? Since the article doesn't touch it, now I'm curious about what it is.
Posted by: Megan at June 20, 2005 12:02 PMHey.
What I am interested about is how they reconcile the different understandings around the sacraments/ordinances. The two traditions hold differing views and theologies about this stuff. Also, how ordination and ecclesial authority are understood is different.
That being said, the English Baptists have a more sacramental view of things than many Baptists in the US do. So, it may be that the guy from Oxford spoke more from his personal understanding than he spoke from a more orthodox Baptist understanding. Of course, that would be a pretty Baptist way of going about it.
I am going to shoot an email off and wait for teh book to come out. It should be fun.
Posted by: Tripp at June 20, 2005 12:40 PMCan you give me a thumbnail rundown of the Episcopal and Baptists positions on the subjects that interest you?
Posted by: Megan at June 20, 2005 01:44 PMUm...hmm...thumbnail.
Typically, Baptists are non-sacramental. Thus the bread and wine are only bread and wine. They never change and there is not special quality posessed by the ordained to change them. So, they are "mere symbol." We celebrate the Lord's Supper because Christ ordered us to. "Whenever you gather, do this in remebrance of me." That is teh why of it for us. And that is the theological end for us as well.
Baptism has a similar quality. Jesus did it. He asked us to do it. So, we do it. Again, that is it. There is nothing specific that happens to people by virtue of the rite. Also, we practice believers' baptism. No babies are to be baptized. It is your faith that sets you free and not the clerical/liturgical act.
The Anglican perspective is more like (though not entirely so) a Catholic position. Bread and wine become flesh and blood. Something changes by virtue of Baptism. Babies are Baptized. They are nuanced more than I could possibly express here.
Those positions are important to understadn because they stem from an understanding of hoqw salvation works...how grace is shared and how we are all converted.
Now, the trouble is when believers within the two traditions hold to the uttermost fundamental ideals to the exclusuion of nuance. These polarities separate us.
But if you ask a run-of-the-mill Baptist if the Holy Spirit was present and changed them at their Baptism, you would hear that it was and they were made new through the waters of Baptism. And if you were to ask if the Anglican priest orders the Spirit around, you would hear a resounding "no." No hocus pocus!
I think what might be happening is that the theological realities, the beliefs as they are held in more common lives and not in some theological hard line, are being discussed and common ground is being found.
Thus endeth the thumbnail.
Posted by: Tripp at June 20, 2005 02:45 PMThanks, that was great!
I'm going to mull on that idea that "Jesus ordered" you, explicitly or by example, to perform sacraments. I think you might have twisted your quotation a little, but I am in my office, surrounded by many a book and play, but no Bibles to check the reference. I'll have to do that when I get home.
Posted by: Megan at June 20, 2005 03:03 PMAh, the burdens of the thumbnail.
We do not perform sacraments. There are none. The rites are performed per Jesus' request and example as we are to be in all ways like Christ.
Yes, it is a particular interpretation, but it is the Baptist interpretation...thus the need for theological dialogue between traditions.
Let me know what you think!
Posted by: Tripp at June 20, 2005 06:12 PMWhat's the difference between a rite and a sacrament?
What I think is really that denominations are moot. You're a Christian, and that's all I really need to know. Denominations seem to have to do with telling people HOW to be Christians, and I'm not interested in that. I'd rather go to the Bible myself than have anybody interpret it for me.
Posted by: Megan at June 21, 2005 12:11 PM"What's the difference between a rite and a sacrament?"
Interpretation.
Wellk, that is my answer at least. A sacrament is an effectual rite. So, for the Anglican, something actually happens at Baptism. There is a transformation rendered. It is not just/only water.
For the Baptist, again following the party line, nothing happens. There is no special release of the Sprit. It is always and only water.
So, Baptist have rites but not sacraments. Sacraments are a subset of rite, if you will.
Posted by: Tripp at June 21, 2005 12:23 PMGot it. Thank you!
Posted by: Megan at June 21, 2005 09:54 PM