Okay, this is cool.
When [Simpson] asked to be put on a list of those who could lead invocations at board meetings, the county attorney told her she would not be allowed, claiming that "Chesterfield's non-sectarian invocations areYeah, this bodes well. Read the rest of the article in the extended link. This is why the separation of church and state is so important. It is either all or nothing. We have religious freedom or we don't. I should be able to pray to Jesus in public and this woman should be able to pray as her tradition dictates as well. Not everyone will like it. Heck, I am often asked to avoid praying by patients because they are still frustrated by religion in general. This case happened near my home town. I have to say that I am facinated by the whole thing.
traditionally made to a divinity that is consistent with the Judeo-Christian tradition."
Federal court rules against Wiccan in municipal prayer dispute
By Robert Marus
WASHINGTON (ABP) -- A federal appeals court has ruled that a Virginia
county can exclude a member of a minority religion from offering prayers at county board meetings -- even though adherents of "Judeo-Christian" religions are allowed to lead invocations.
In a unanimous ruling April 14, a three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled against county resident Cynthia Simpson, whom officials denied the opportunity to offer prayers at meetings of the Chesterfield County Board of Supervisors.
Simpson is a practitioner of Wicca, a neo-pagan religion that she has described as interchangeable with witchcraft. She is a leader in a Wiccan congregation in the suburban county near Richmond. When she asked to be put on a list of those who could lead invocations at board meetings, the county attorney told her she would not be allowed, claiming that "Chesterfield's non-sectarian invocations are traditionally made to a divinity that is consistent with the Judeo-Christian tradition."
Simpson, working with attorneys from a pair of civil-liberties groups, sued the county. A federal district judge in Richmond sided with her, ruling in 2003 that the practice unconstitutionally discriminated against religions that do not stem from the dominant Western monotheistic traditions.
But the latest ruling reverses that decision, citing the Supreme Court's 1985 Marsh vs. Chambers decision allowing "non-sectarian" legislative prayers before the Nebraska legislature. Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson III, authoring the 4th Circuit's opinion, said the content of the prayers Chesterfield County officials allowed was broad enough, and the fact that Simpson was barred from offering one was immaterial to the case.
"The Judeo-Christian tradition is, after all, not a single faith but an umbrella covering many faiths," Wilkinson wrote. "We need not resolve the parties' dispute as to its precise extent, as Chesterfield County has spread it wide enough in this case to include Islam. For these efforts, the County should not be made the object of constitutional condemnation."
Wilkinson has been widely rumored to be among the candidates for a Supreme Court appointment, should any slots on that body come open before the end of President Bush's term.
The judge went on to say that the Marsh decision means governments have wider latitude in dealing with religious expression in legislative contexts without offending the First Amendment clause that prohibits government establishment of religion than in other contexts -- such as public schools.
Wilkinson continued: "The Chesterfield policy of clergy selection may
not encompass as much as Simpson would like, and were it to be applied beyond the 'unique' and limited context of legislative prayer, it may not encompass as much as [another Supreme Court decision on government-sponsored prayers] would require. But that context is all important, for if Marsh means anything, it is that the Establishment Clause does not scrutinize legislative invocations with the same rigor that it appraises other religious activities."
A Baptist expert on church-state issues said the case was wrongly decided. "The clearest command of the Establishment Clause, and even [of] fundamental fairness, is that the state must not prefer one religion over another," said Brent Walker, executive director of the Washington-based Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty.
Walker also said the suit is indicative of the problems with using public prayers to solemnize government activities. "This case points out the difficulty with public legislative prayer in a religiously
pluralistic society," he said. "The government always is involved in picking and choosing."
Simpson may appeal the decision to the Supreme Court or ask for the full 4th Circuit to re-hear the case. In a similar case last year, another three-judge panel of the same court outlawed a South Carolina town's practice of allowing only Christian prayers at town council meetings.
A spokesman for one of the groups that helped Simpson file her lawsuit, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said April 18 that Simpson and her attorneys had not yet officially made the decision to appeal or ask for a re-hearing. According to the Richmond Times-Dispatch, Simpson has said she would welcome an appeal.
Actually, according to the circuit court's ruling it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Further, the Baptist preacher's comment about preferring one religion over another is clearly not the case, since many religions are included. Judeo-Christianity, quite obviously, is not monolithic.
There's no establishment here. The court rightly, in my opinion, saw that there is no necessity to having every conceivable religious opinion represented. A plurality is represented. 'Nuff said.
Posted by: Clifton D. Healy at April 18, 2005 07:19 PMI did not say that the Circuit Court ruling said all or nothing. I am saying it. ;-)
If a religious group wishes to participate, it should either not be allowed, thus none should, or all who ask to participate should. There may be other reasons to limit participation, but prefering Judeo-Christian traditions over others is not less oppressive than approving Methodism over others.
The majority is responsible for the welfare of minority in this country.
Posted by: Tripp at April 19, 2005 12:08 PMSaid as a good Baptist (see...you really are one ;-)), Tripp.
I agree with you on this. Especially your last sentence.
Thanks
Ugh. Judeo-Christianity is not a single faith, yes, it's two faiths! It means Jews and Christians, (it says above they snuck Islam in there, which doesn't make sense to me) and to limit prayers to them sounds like establishment of religion, if you're going to exclude Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan or whatever kind of prayer. Why not just have a moment of silence where everyone can pray to whoever they like?
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