The The Baptist Fiath and Message clearly states that "the criterion by which the Bible is to be interpreted is Jesus Christ." Our main task then is not to proclaim the infallibility of our Church, our written sources or our human capabilities. It is to tell the "good news" about what Christ has done for the world and what He has done for us personally.Throughout history there have been those who have sought to alter our Christ centered faith and take Jesus out of His primary place in our witness.
To try to replace the centrality of Christ with anything else is to twist and to alter the intentions of our Lord and in a word, is heresy!
There is a little something to play with today. Keep in mind that On These Truths We Stand can be somewhat vitriolic and that is directly aimed at other Baptists. This is a great historical resource, however, and it is serving to remind me of just how painful the whole split was. Struggling for identity seems to be the general problem for all of us these days as well. Are there warnings from our past that can help us sort this stuff out?
Emerging Church
Orthodox conversions
Baptist polities...we just gotta scrap with one annother
ECUSA and human sexuality
The list could go on.
Here is the scripture used to undergird the above.
Hebrews 1:2-3
Philippians 2:9-11
Acts 2:36
And if the policies of your church fail to embody Christ-centeredness... what then?
Posted by: Megan at February 18, 2004 09:38 AMNothing really. This is the almost humorous thing. How one defines "centrality of Christ" can be different. There are so many varieties of interpretation.
There is no organization within ABC policy that "punishes" churches for not doing this. Again, ideally, even that judgment is left to God.
Now, sometimes a region will disfellowship a congregation. This is always met with great suspicion by other regions and that disfellowshipped church is usually scooped up by a more "relaxed" region. For baptists there are to be no structures outside the congregation that can govern the congregation.
These confessions are always to be descriptive and not prescriptive. This is tough to live out as many people want a Rule Book for Baptists, but that is the polity we are supposed to be after.
Living in contradiction Yay.
Posted by: Tripp at February 18, 2004 09:44 AMSorry, my question wasn't clear. What do you, an individual Baptist, do when your church (congregation or denomination) resists Christ-centeredness in final, we're-not-moving-on-this-one ways?
By staying a Baptist, you basically endorse Baptist policies. If those policies aren't Christ-centered, what do you do?
Posted by: Megan at February 18, 2004 12:04 PMMmm...
I Speak up. I point it out. Sometimes this brings change. Sometimes I am given a new way to see things and realize what I thought was not Christ-centered is actually Christ-centered.
Sometimes all I can do is disagree.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, when this happens I am not the only one who notices and says something. This is a pretty good community. I do know of people who have left outof their own frustration. We can all probably tell horror stories about this kind of thing. Pastors and Priests get ousted all the time. Deacons and vestries are often turned upsidedowm. The church can be a mess.
I will also pray. This should have come first in my responses. I usually pray for teh situation and for humility. I know, trite. But it is true. If I am not centered in Christ, I cannot rightly ask another to be. And I have to be patient. Changes often come slowly...like Moses at the Jordan. I will probably not live long enough to see the fruition of the most important changes. I will only see their initial inception.
Posted by: Tripp at February 18, 2004 12:14 PMWhy do you believe that the changes will happen at all?
Posted by: Megan at February 18, 2004 12:42 PMJesus says he brings change, transformation etc. Heck, he changed me. Why would he not change someone else?
That person may not listen, but I personally can't rest there. I have to assume change will happen, even if I never see it.
Posted by: Tripp at February 18, 2004 08:46 PMI appreciate your optimism. But as you know, I don't share it.
I believe that no church changes until it's forced to.
And I believe the only way to force change is to leave. Because in my opinion and experience, churches don't listen to anything else. When enough people leave in enough droves, enough pews are empty and donations fall enough, that the church has to change or cease to exist, THEN change happens.
Posted by: Megan at February 19, 2004 12:29 PMThe only way to force change is leave? Really? Do you mean that or are you voicing frustration? I have found that there are many examples of churches changing because people stay. This was certainly the case at North Shore.
And we coudl come up with many examples to support either side of this argument. My step-mom, Judy, and her dad argue this out a lot. He wanted the church to change so he stayed. She wanted it to change so she left. I can see the value of both.
Ho do you see yourself as an agent of change in the Roman tradition or have you tossed that one entirely?
Re: optimism...I may have to post on that one alone.
Posted by: Tripp at February 19, 2004 08:17 PMI truly believe that churches don't change unless forced by extreme bleeding.
I have nothing further to do with the Roman Catholic Church. I "tossed that one" more than 15 years ago.
Posted by: Megan at February 20, 2004 07:34 AMWe have some precedent of extreme bleeding in Christian history. That might work.
But there is as much history of the other, grace, growth, transformation, reconciliation. You have both in the church.
Posted by: Tripp at February 20, 2004 09:19 AMI thought I posted this earlier this morning, but it isn't showing up. So, again:
Yes, I truly believe that no church will reform until forced to by extreme membership bleed.
And I haven't had anything to do with the RC Church in well over 15 years. Nor will I, till the end of my life.
Posted by: Megan at February 20, 2004 11:48 AM